Posts by JW Ben

33

witness response to mind control information

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

that is bad !!

dave, has jehovah's witnesses society proved itself by what it teaches, to love man and god and wife and child and to act for the betterment of all?

which one of these ways mentioned does the society use?

JW Ben

Last part of the message that did not come through.

Remember this article is not finished

Strongs works do add another and final meaning, but not based on word meanings as above. He uses his theological "bias" or background to specifically link the word to the doctrine of the Trinity.

Q

Alright so the word ruach can mean "active force". But what about the other changes?

A

I will prepare a more detailed look at that for you. ( see....

QAlright lets skip over that.One of the things that show you are under mind control is disfellowshiping. This puts fear into JW members to conform to Watchtower policies or lose their friends and family. You can not think any think different or let your conscience be your guide in relation to celebrating holidays such as Christmas or Easter. You have to believe all that the society tells you to believe.Do JW's have a scriptual basis for dissfellowshiping (excommunicating) someone from their midst?

A
Yes we believe that we do. Now I am not going to ask you to agree with me on these texts but I will give you the Biblical reason as to why some are disfellowshiped. First, when some one becomes a JW they understand what the teachings are in relation to those holiday celebrations. Witnesses are not allowed to be "baptised" on an emotional high. They must understand the basic "doctrines" before baptism. If an individual finds that there is a teaching that they do not agree with or understand why such a line is taken, they are not disfellowshiped. However, if such a person starts to undermine the faith of others but spreading their doubts or by teaching something contrary to the organisation, action will be taken. Q
Yeah right. I've read many accounts on the internet where JWs have been disfellowshiped just for not believing something in the Watchtower.

59

WT Says Jehovah a mistake

by garybuss in

jw
friends

"as to the old testament name of god, certainly the spelling and pronunciation "jehovah" were originally a blunder.

(the bible in living english, 1972, p.7, watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania) .

what's the deal?

JW Ben

I have not read all the posts, but that particular Bible, I have it at home and have not yet looked for that quote, was printed by the WTBTS but not written by them. It was published under lisence as the purchased the rights.

THe WTBTS have long recognised that the English form "Jehovah" is not the original way of saying the name, but then again neither is the English version of "Jesus" or Joshua", but they are accepted as being close and when they are used we recognise who is being spoken about, so the use the name "Jehovah" because it was widely recognised as the name of the Hebrews God before JWs were even thought of.

If we accept Jesus etc why not accept the English Jehovah?

9

Does the wtbts have a 'bible study' on this?

by Bang in

i posted this on the main section but it seems that it's not a well known issue.

it's the question regarding the way jws go door to door.

[luke 10:7.23] and remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide,for the laborer deserves his wages; do not go from house to house.

JW Ben

Beach witnessing is fun.

I've done it at rmote surfing spots in Austrlia.

Taken of shoes, rolled up trousers, undun top button, went to the surfies camps.

Out on my board behind the waves start a conversation count the time riding to the beach and padling out again. Mags in bag on the beach.

Excellent results.

Urban ledgend has it, that the inventor of the short board is a JW in Queensland

41

1975---- DID IT REALLY BOTHER YOU?

by minimus in

jw
friends

on the net you see many talk about 1975 and how it affected so many.

obviously, some left the organization when nothing happened in 1975. were you personally affected by 1975?

has the fixing of dates been a major reason for your disappointment with the witnesses?

JW Ben

NO 1975 did nor dother me

I was a publisher since 1965

I always took it as the way it was meant... 1975 was the end of 6000years of mans creation... and nothing more.

I remember Watchtowers in 1966 and 67 talking about it as the end of mankinds first 6000 years of excistace on earth. There were "quotes" from people that felt that the "end" was close because of that.

Jesus apostles thought the end was close. I thought the end was close (but close in jehovahs point of vire not our human point of view)

Me. I just keep lodding away trying my best to do what is right rgardless of the wrong actions of some men in positions of resonsability. They will get their reward for their wrong actions.

27

DID AN ELDER EVER HELP YOU?

by minimus in

jw
friends

there are so many horror stories about elders.

many people dislike or can't stand elders, in general.

a number here have been truly hurt by some.

JW Ben

The elders (in general) seem to be to occupied with making money, building and selling, new cars and entertainment to spend time sheparding. ; (Nothing wrong with those things but they should not control your life) I have had elders truly help once. I have also had other elders push me toward suicide (thank goodness I failed) Elders are not trained in human behaviour, and they should be. Those that have suffered have some form of compation. ; Those that have life easy do not. I am and will remain a JW

Jugement starts with them (1 Peter 4:17

"For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God? 18 "And if the righteous [man] is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly [man] and the sinner make a showing?" 19 So, then, also let those who are suffering in harmony with the will of God keep on commending their souls to a faithful Creator while they are doing good."

14

Watchtower knew of CHild Abuse in 1976

by JW Ben in

i just did a search on the cd and ther was a mjor article on child abuse in the awake of july 22 1976 starting on page 5 and going to about page 10.

JW Ben

Ok in me hurry I did not read the full article so I did some more searches...

Another search result…

Watchtower My 15 1950 an early article on Blood. The discussion went along these lines….. "If God forbade close relatives like brothers and sisters, parent to child, etc., to marry because of thereby bequeathing emphasized human idiosyncrasies to their offspring and causing diseases, do you think that God would disapprove any less of blood transfusion with all its disease-spreading and fatal properties and possibilities?—Leviticus 18:6-18; 20:11-21."

The interesting part for me was their use of Leviticus 18:6-18 Just quoting verse 9 …"9 “‘As for the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born in the same household or born outside it, you must not lay bare their nakedness."

They realised back then that sex with a child was wrong. They also teach sex out side of marriage is wrong. So even though it may not have been a big problem the principle was there. As I child from going to meetings I knew it was wrong.

I can only assume that it was not talked about because the community as a whole did not talk about it.

The first mention of "Pedophile" was in a 1982 Awake June 22

So I did a search using "child sex" and came up with this as the oldest related printing

Watchtower 1960 15 November page 678 paragraph 6 …..

"……These sex organs are therefore not to be treated as playthings, nor are they to be abused, misused or misapplied. The proper care of sex organs applies both before marriage and after marriage, in order to conduce toward successful, happy marriage. When we take a long-range view of matters, the healthy, helpful preparation of a child for future marriage really begins before that child’s birth. Yes, in that respect a heavy responsibility rests on its parents, who should think not only of their child but also of their grandchild. No one, either the parents or persons not the parents, should want or has the right to mar a child’s opportunity, privilege and natural right to enter into clean, honorable marriage."

NOTE THE QUESTION FOR THAT PARAGRAPH

6. How are sex organs rightly to be considered, and does anyone have the right to interfere with a child’s finally entering into clean marriage?

My conclusion…They knew that paedophilia was wrong (even if the word was not in use)

14

Watchtower knew of CHild Abuse in 1976

by JW Ben in

i just did a search on the cd and ther was a mjor article on child abuse in the awake of july 22 1976 starting on page 5 and going to about page 10.

JW Ben

I just did a search on the CD and ther was a mjor article on child abuse in the Awake of July 22 1976 starting on page 5 and going to about page 10.

52

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

JW Ben

First for Ozzie

Have a look in anny concordance under great crowd or great multitude.

It is used many times and referef to different groups of people in different circumsatnces, so the terms as used in Revelaetion can rightly be said to be different groups of people if context allows. And it does. They are n\mentioned in different visions John had to apply to different groups of "people"

Second for Justin

I fully agree with you that context is imortant. Does the context allow for Rev 7 to refere to the earth. You suggest it does not because of chapter 4 In Rev.4 You are correct, John is transported from the earth (in vision)to get a magnificent view of the heavenly throne of Jehovah God.

In Rev 7, John is having another vision, the setting is different. Herer john gets a vision of the time of the end when the Angels hold back the winds of destruction upon unfaithfull mankind certain events have been finalised. 1st, the sealing of spiritual Israel had to have been completed. 2nd, A great crowd out of all nations attribute salvation to God and Christ and are gathered for survival through the great tribulation.

This different setting allows for the great crowd to be on earth in Gods precence. The context relates to the earth, the destuction (Armagedon), spritual Israel coming from, great crowd to remain on.

3rd Crownboy

The illustration about doctors was to show that we continue to learn and progress. I agree that in some respects (when taken beyond the context of what I was sayiong) the illustraion does not fit.

There are and have ben doctors that do not want to change their ways and techniques that they learned in times past. The WTS is always willing to learn and change. There are things they they say I do not agree with, but if I beleive them or not is not going to affect where I stand before my creator.

When I do not agree, I have no problem talking about it. And I know of many that do not agree with or understand why some things are said and openly say so. But I have seen otheres that have had issues and will get on their hobby hores and try to change the world (well at least some close to them) and these ones have been Dfd or left.

There is the difference. We can have our own views according to our conscience and remain in "the organisation".

I have experienced "pushing" my thoughts (and consequences) and just tralking about them.

I was asked to step down as an MS (over 10 years as MS) and my pride was damaged for a while because of it. It was considered what I was doing might stumble some and I understand that. I did not want to be the cause of upsetting anyone. I still think the elderes in my cong. acted hastely, but the overall theology of JWs I agree with. I do not blame them or hold it against them (even though I at times find it hard to trust those men). I appreciate that no one on earth is perfect, all men are liars, and such ones have the resonsability of "teaching" and "leading" the congregations, so I do not expect perfection just as in the first centry there were many "leaders" that made terrible mistakes, I understand that in moderen times all of us GB down to RF make mistakes. and each one will be accountable for them. If those with greater responsability make mistakes their accountabibnlty will be greater.

I mention that to show that the Org. does not demand strict obedience to them. We can think for ourselves, but it is our personal attitude that usually determins the outcome.

JW Ben

52

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

JW Ben

Isiah 66:1 says "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?: (AV)

Lamintations 2:1 "How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!" (AV)

Matt 5:34,35 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King." (AV)

Acts 7:49:"Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" (AV)

All those texts pluss others places the earth in the very prence of Jehovah, right at his feet. So why is it inconcivable the the court yard not be included on earth?

The word TEMPLE translates the word ‘naos’ in the Greek. Although it is true, that predominantly the word stands for the ‘sanctuary’ which is represented by heaven, that is not always the case, even with the Apostle John. The ‘naos’ that was built in 46 years at John 2: 19-22 was not just talking about the ‘sanctuary’ but the entire structure, including its courtyards.

Concerning the great crowd and the phrase "before" the throne. "Before" is "enopion" in the Greek and simply means "in the sight of". There is no reason to think you must be in heaven to be in the sight of God, especially in highly symbolic visions. Revelation 20:11 shows that the 'earth and heaven' could easily be considered in the sight of God, for there they are spoken of as fleeing from God's face as he is on the throne.
From seeing how the same Greek word is used elsewhere, we can see that being "before" or "in the sight of" God does not require being in heaven.
Jeremiah 35:19 LXX
Isaiah 66:22 LXX
Luke 1:75
Acts 10:33
Romans 14:22
Galatins 1:20
1 Timothy 5:21
2 Timothy 2:14

As far as Rev 19:1 goes there is no need to assume that it refers to the same "great crowd"
REV 19:1 "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:" (AV)

REv 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" (AV)

If we assune that they are the same group of people then we must use the same reasonings to assume that every time the term great crowd (or as the AV says great multitude) they must also reder to the same thing.

Scripture clearly shows that the earth is in sight of God and we are in the sight of God.

We can go arround in circles with every one pointing to different texts, but for me I need to put the texts into the "BIG" picture of Gods purposes for the earth... to be inhabited ... and se how those texts fit into that. For me it is quite clear that the great crowd are on earth and thiose that are to be joint heirs with Christ are in heaven.

JW Ben

52

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

JW Ben

What is all the fuss about?

Most JWs wouldnt care if the OS were in this court yard or that court yard.

Just where the OS stand in realation to the temple, if it be in a part of the temple that was not part of the original or not, makes no difference to a JW as to the out come of Salvation. They still beleive that the OS will be here on earth and the LF will go to heaven.

What is wrong with people expanding their knowledge. It hapens all the time espectially in medicen. I am glad that doctors continue to advance. Sometimed they get it wrong and sometimes they get it right. The overal effect is a learning from mistakes and improving.